JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from 91ÖÆƬ³§ News. I'm Juana Summers in Washington.
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
And I'm Ailsa Chang in Culver City, California. And voters here in California have approved Prop 50. The measure allows this state to redraw its congressional map. The new map could mean as many as five new seats for Democrats after next year's midterm elections. Governor Gavin Newsom says the measure is a direct response to gerrymandering efforts in Republican-led states like Texas. But critics, like Republican Kevin Kiley of California, strongly oppose Prop 50. Congressman Kiley joins us now. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
KEVIN KILEY: Thanks for having me.
CHANG: Thanks for being with us. OK. So you have been very vocal about your opposition to Prop 50. Your seat is one of the seats targeted by this new map. But you have introduced a bill to ban all mid-decade redistricting nationwide, right? So let me make sure I'm clear. You oppose redistricting efforts by your own party, as well - efforts that President Trump has pushed for?
KILEY: That's correct. I don't care if it's a Republican state, a Democrat state. I think gerrymandering is wrong. So I opposed it in California. I oppose it in Texas. And ultimately, the passage of Prop 50, I think we should take as a call to action to get rid of gerrymandering nationwide and establish independent redistricting across the country.
CHANG: And you think gerrymandering should end altogether or just mid-decade gerrymandering?
KILEY: Well, so the bill that I've introduced seeks to sort of address this new phenomenon of mid-decade redistricting, which I think is especially pernicious. But ultimately, by the time of the next census, when we're actually supposed to do regular redistricting, I'd like to see a solution for gerrymandering, you know, across the country, as well.
CHANG: But there was a bill put forward back in 2021 - right? - that was led by Democrats. It would have banned gerrymandering altogether, and no Republican senators voted for it. So how do you get more of your Republican colleagues on board with your position on gerrymandering?
KILEY: You know, I think more people are recognizing the extent of the problem, for no other reason than we're seeing lots of states that are now having, you know, their district maps totally upended. I think the bill you're referring to had a lot of other things in it. But what I'd like to see and what I'm actually working on now is something that is specifically tailored at just setting up something like an independent commission, like we had in California, in all 50 states. And actually, a silver lining of Prop 50 is that in addition to bringing back gerrymandering in California, what it also did was adopt a state policy in California of supporting independent redistricting nationwide. So I certainly intend to act upon that call to action from the voters.
CHANG: OK. Well, for now, at least, Prop 50 is the political reality in this state, in California. So that means the path to your reelection will probably be a lot more difficult. How do you see, or do you even see a viable path for your political survival?
KILEY: I do see a viable path. I - of course, I'm not happy that my beautiful district, I think the most beautiful district in California, is now going to be chopped into six different pieces. But, you know, kind of the fundamental flaw with gerrymandering is that it presupposes that politicians can dictate election outcomes simply by moving lines around on the map. But at the end of the day, the power still rests with voters to choose their representatives. And I think people, you know, they look beyond the party label. They look at the person.
And I was fortunate in my last reelection to actually get the second most crossover votes of any competitive race in the country, meaning that people that voted for Kamala Harris for president but voted for me for representative. And that's because I focused on issues that don't have a particularly partisan valence but are simply about improving the quality of life for the folks that I represent.
CHANG: I want to turn now, briefly, to the government shutdown. You have also criticized your own party for keeping the House out of session during the shutdown. You've pointed to partisanship being one of the things preventing the reopening of the government. So let me just ask you, how do you suggest all of you end this game of chicken that we've been seeing for so many days right now?
KILEY: Yeah. So having the House in session would be a start. I think it's totally unacceptable that the Republican leadership has decided to cancel sessions of the U.S. House of Representatives for six straight weeks. It's meant that all of our ordinary business has been shut down, in addition to meaning that we don't have a lot of relevance on the House side in getting us out of this mess. We are starting to see some encouraging signs of life. I've been having discussions with people on both sides of the aisle about addressing this health care issue, of the cliff for these subsidies that will make health care a lot more expensive for a lot of people. My colleague in California from across the aisle, Sam Liccardo, and I have just released a framework on that issue.
So I think that these sort of conversations on the Senate side, as well, are starting to lead somewhere. But it is just so unacceptable that we have had a government shutdown for 36 days now. And I think that these two episodes - the redistricting war and the government shutdown - really underline the extent to which excessive partisanship is one of the biggest challenges facing the country. And, you know, that's what I pledged to overcome when I first ran, and I think that's more important than ever now.
CHANG: Well, speaking of partisanship, when you look at the big wins that Democrats did have last night, undeniably, how concerned are you that that result might reflect that President Trump and his policies are just not all that popular right now?
KILEY: Well, you know, everyone's going to attach whatever meaning they will to election results on a given night. You know...
CHANG: What do you attach to it?
KILEY: I think that, from my perspective in California, it's that the country is very divided right now, and people are just very frustrated with Congress in general, with Washington in general. I saw a poll showing that Congress has a 13% approval rating. And honestly, with this government shutdown, a lot of people have almost just become desensitized to the dysfunction of Washington. And even, you know, now there's just such an extreme example of it - people losing their food assistance and...
CHANG: Exactly.
KILEY: ...Being furloughed for weeks on end...
CHANG: Right.
KILEY: ...And going without paychecks.
CHANG: That is California Republican Kevin Kiley. Thank you so much for speaking with us.
KILEY: Of course. Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by 91ÖÆƬ³§, Copyright 91ÖÆƬ³§.
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